The resurgence of print, “‘MAGMA’ offers the long view of annual publication, where true artistic sensibility exists.”
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The resurgence of print media... “‘MAGMA’ offers the long view of annual publication, where only true artistic sensibility exists.”
Exclusive interview with Paul Olivennes, who is the founder and editor-in-chief of the global independent publication MAGMA
(Image credit: Courtesy of Magma/Bottega Veneta)
BY Boyun Choi (bbo13130@gmail.com)
* This is the online version of the full interview, which could not fit in the newspaper due to space limitations.(지면 한계로 다 싣지 못한 인터뷰 전문을 온라인으로 게재합니다.)
People say the era of print ended. However, a man argues for the rebirth of print instead of downfall. Paul Olivennes is the founder and editor-in-chief of the global independent publication MAGMA. The Paris-born editor-in-chief brought out a publication called MAGMA to the world last July with an ambition to revive the great 20th century’s art legacy like Georges Bataille’s Document (1929), Minotaure (1933) and Andy Warhol’s Interview, the first issue (1969).
The 224-page magazine is, at a glance, a book. However, it is, as per Olivennes, “A forum for artistic expression and aesthetic manifesto, and an experimental place where artists and writers can cooperate and create artworks together.” His choice to connect artists and artists or artists and readers was a print medium. Even though he had not much experience in the print industry, he chose this reckless challenge. Paul Olivennes was born in 1997, when Apple’s founder, Steve Jobs, returned to Apple as a CEO, and is a so-called digital native-a generation who grew up with digital devices.
However, his DNA raised public awareness about the value of prints. His grandfather, Pierre Berès (1913 to 2008), was called “the king of the French booksellers” and was renowned for collecting and donating various rare and first-edition books. New York Times used the phrase “Tenacious Book Collector” for his obituary in 2008. Olivennes’ mother, Angélique Berès, is a law firm’s principal attorney. His father, Denis Olivennes works for the French daily newspaper Libération as a CEO.
Grew up as a collector of various art publications, Paul Olivennes is now experimenting to push the limit of the print medium. The first issue of MAGMA introduces 18 artists and 80 artworks and literature to surpass the art genre, country, generation, and boundary between life and death. Most artworks were kept from the public, and some were newly created for MAGMA. It is 2000 copies of a limited, numbered edition. Italian luxury brand Bottega Veneta has supported the independent publication, backed by its Creative Director Matthieu Blazy for his broad vision of intellectual art.
We had an exclusive interview with Paul Olivennes to celebrate the magazine’s launch. It took many times to read, ask questions, and interpret his answers to follow his wide range of artistic knowledge and quotations. He explained, “I insisted that a book was a combination of a mental and a physical thing : « A printed book is obviously a “cosa mentale”, and it’s also a physical thing; so, it’s a combination of an idea and an object. That’s why we wanted to offer original content in a unique object. Each MAGMA copy is numbered by hand, with original artworks in the form of inserts.”
Agnès Varda, in her thought-provoking prose from 1976, weaves an intricate commentary on Claude Nori’s photographs, showcasing a remarkable convergence of artistry and vision in the form of leg-shaped glasses. Meanwhile, Erri de Luca’s lyrical words gracefully intertwine with Luigi Ghirri’s evocative images, capturing the shared milieu of Paris in the 1970s. In a symphony of artistic expression, Lucas Arruda’s resplendent painting engages in a profound dialogue with Edouard Glissant’s poignant poem, forging a connection that transcends mediums and resonates deeply within the soul. Each stroke of color harmonizes with every verse, creating a multidimensional experience that embraces both the tangible and the ethereal.
Furthermore, the enchanting recollections of architect India Mahdavi and the insightful musings of Egyptian writer Alaa Al Aswany entwine gracefully as they share their collective experiences of Cairo. Through their unique lenses, vivid patterns emerge, capturing the essence of a city teeming with life, history, and vibrant tales waiting to be told. François Halard’s mesmerizing photographs of the resplendent Villa Palagonia, a Sicilian Baroque palace, stand in elegant companionship with Goethe’s timeless account of the palazzo. The symbiotic interplay between visual and written narratives brings forth a captivating tapestry that spans centuries, enriching our understanding and appreciation of this architectural masterpiece. Sophie Calle, a luminary in the realm of artistic expression, continues her renowned series, “Parce que”, weaving narratives that delve into the intricate layers of human existence.
Through her artistry, she invites us to explore the realms of introspection, sparking contemplation and evoking profound emotions. In a compelling encounter, Boris Bergman traverses the landscapes of memory with artist Andra Ursuţa, born in 1979 during the tumultuous era of Ceausescu’s Romania. Ursuţa’s poignant tribute, an achingly beautiful song of mourning and love, resonates with echoes of Soviet-era pirate records imprinted on medical X-rays. The inclusion of one such haunting X-ray within these very pages adds a tangible layer to this poignant journey.
The transcendent collages crafted by Norwegian-Nigerian artist Frida Orupabo infuse this collection with a sense of raw and unfiltered beauty. Each composition becomes a visual testament to the power of juxtaposition, inviting contemplation and evoking a multitude of emotions.
The editor-in-chief who encompassed the global art scene, including Europe, Africa, and South America scenes, said, “Korean art scene is rich and interesting. I love the work of Yun Hyong-keun or Lee Ufan and many other Korean artists. I’m also really interested in Korean filmmakers, Hong Sang-soo, Bong Joon-ho, and Park Chan-Wook.”
He announced, “In an era of technological reproducibility, Instagram, virtuality, and ephemerality, the goal was to give meaning back to the tangible object, to the artist’s gesture.” All the worldwide applause from the major media and art scene is perhaps because his effort is another key to solving the digital generation’s Zeitgeist rather than a return to the past.
1. What made you publish MAGMA Magazine? Is there any background story or any special episode?
(e.g., the idea came to you while talking with artists, reading old books, reading flooding online
news, watching movies, or dreaming while sleeping, etc.)
The idea for MAGMA came from different observations and inspirations. For a long time, I had been looking at, reading, and collecting twentieth-century art journals, avant-garde publications, both literary and artistic,
and I very much regretted that there was not a contemporary iteration of such publications accessible to my generation.
At the same time, I had the feeling that more and more of today’s art publishing was choosing the path of intellectual analysis of artists and their work, rather than that of sensitive discovery of their art. The principle behind MAGMA was therefore quite clear in my mind: to revive a demanding but accessible publication that presented viewers and readers previously unpublished works by artists from different backgrounds, as an intimate gateway to their work.
2. MAGMA contains about 80 artworks and works of literature by 18 artists. The artists include French film director Agnes Varda on Claude Nori’s photographs, a cross-genre dialogue between Lucas Arruda’s paintings and a poem by Edouard Glissant, Sophie Calle, Frida Orupabo, Francois Halard, who are well-known for their unique and deep artistic philosophies, thus readers seeking art rather than fame would interest in.
It is already written in the manifesto, “MAGMA has no theme. MAGMA takes no position. MAGMA belongs to no community. MAGMA adheres to no principle” but can you explain more about if there any reason to include these certain artists’ artworks in the first issue of MAGMA? (Are there any criteria for it?)
The statement you quoted is taken from the manifesto that introduces the publication. This manifesto is a tribute to the great art journals of the twentieth century, most of which were linked to artistic or cultural movements. Their manifestos were a way of setting out a vision, a purpose, and a direction. In MAGMA’s case,
however, since the idea was not to foster a particular movement or genre, but on the contrary to open perspectives on very different horizons, on dialogues between artists and on their encounters, I wanted to make this non-specificity our specificity.
As far as the selection of artists was concerned, I wanted the publication to bring together a very broad spectrum of disciplines, mediums, backgrounds, genres, and generations. Therefore the publication brings together painters, photographers, writers, filmmakers, sculptors, visual artists and poets, living and dead, from France, Italy, Egypt, Israel, Norway, Nigeria, Brazil, Germany or Romania.
3. Some artworks were made exclusively for this book. How long does it take to plan and publish, including collecting all works and getting publication right?
Between the finalized concept and release in bookshops, there were almost two years of development and production. Gaining the trust of artists, giving them time and support to produce their work, takes an incredible amount of time. MAGMA is also an independent publication, with its own publishing house and its own production capacity, which also means we need a longer period to produce and print.
Our ambition is to bring out one issue every year. This frequency also reflects an essential MAGMA principle: in a world of immediacy, we need to once again take time.
4. What came to your mind when the book was just published? What was your first word for it?
It is certainly the feeling of satisfaction that comes from having collectively created something that at once appeals to the artists and resonates with the public. To move from inner dialogue (between the artists) to an even broader dialogue between the artists and their audience.
5. What made you name it MAGMA? Is there any reason for the choice?
The idea was to find a word that was universal, that could be heard and understood in most languages and that immediately evoked a kind of depth, interiority, and intimacy. The geological definition of “magma” is the molten, thick mass that rises from the depths of the earth to the surface. It was a metaphor.
6. What was the story behind the collaboration with Bottega Veneta? What was the reason behind the partnership?
Bottega Veneta has a long history of collaboration with artists, from Andy Warhol to Gaetano Pesce. In recent years, the brand has also supported several print publications. So, it was quite natural for me to approach them, and I am very honored by the trust they have placed in me by supporting such an initiative today. I’d like to take this opportunity to thank them.
7. Hans Ulrich Obrist, who wrote the publication preface, was a moderator in the artist talk session
with Gaetano Pesce and Bottega Veneta’s creative director, Matthieu Blazy, in the past season.(I have been there!) And I felt Matthieu is also deeply understand and love the art. Have you ever talked with Matthieu on this book or after the publication?
I had a chance to talk to Matthieu Blazy after the publication release. The discussions I had with him reveal his great knowledge of artists and his sincere and strong interest in art.
8. What does it mean by “1+1=11″ in Obrist’s preface?
I think it was a reference to a quote by Etel Adnan - ≪ The world needs togetherness, not separation. Love, not suspicion. A common future, not isolation ≫. It is the idea that we are stronger when we are united, when we add to each other.
9. According to your interview with Artnet, you are more of a facilitator rather than curator - “I see my role more as that of a facilitator than curator. It was important to listen to the artists, their desires for collaboration and dialogue, and find the ways that they spoke to and resonated with one another.” (https://news.artnet.com/art-world/MAGMA-annual-review-2330735)
Could you tell us more about how you facilitate? Some of artists have passed away and they may inspire one, but at inspiration must be one-sided. In your opinion, how can these things be mutually affected?
When I was talking about being a facilitator, I was thinking about the need not to talk about artists and their work, but to share their words and works. I remember a passage in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha where learning wisdom means listening to the river. And it is the river ferryman who teaches this to Siddhartha. I believe very strongly that we need to listen to artists, to what they have to say and to share, and to create the conditions in which that voice, whether individual or collective, can be heard.
10. There are literatures included, similar to “scoop” for newspapers, such as unpublished letters of French writer Rene Char. As you introduce artists from different genres in the book, you may serve the role of discovering artists (bringing those who may not be well-known to the public’s attention).
What is the critical value you have/have had as an editor to publish this book?
One of MAGMA’s distinctive features is its insistence on dialogue between genres and generations, including both established and emerging artists. Perhaps the critical value of the publication lies in this desire to encourage encounters, including those that may seem unexpected, but from which meanings, inspirations, and affinities emerge.
Erri De Luca and Luigi Ghirri, for example, never met. The text that Erri De Luca wrote on the photographs of his compatriot is the dialogue that they could have had. Tim Breuer, on the other hand, chose to illustrate his painting with a poem by Charles Baudelaire, while the architect India Mahdavi and Egyptian writer Alaa Al Aswany came together to share their experience of Cairo.
11. I feel like MAGMA is a kind of portable art gallery or a museum. As this can be stored for years and read any time after that, but this also has limitations as a two-dimensional medium. Books can contain ideas/thought of architects, installation artists, or media artists but cannot contain their works themselves (except for photographs). Is there any reason to choose the book (printed media) format to expose or communicate with readers, given that limitation?
Thank you for that comment. A printed book is obviously a “cosa mentale”, and it’s also a physical thing; so, it’s a combination of an idea and an object. That’s why we wanted to offer original content in a unique object.
Each MAGMA copy is numbered by hand, with original artworks in the form of inserts. Some of this work is one-of-a-kind. The work produced by Andra Ursuța, for example, is different in each copy. Throughout the publication, we used extremely sophisticated printing techniques. We also created very tactile experiences, such as opening an envelope to read a letter. In the next issues, we want to push back the traditional limits of the two-dimensional object even further, to show just how surprising the book object can be — and what a very powerful vehicle it can be for transmission and sharing, both intellectually and sensitively.
12. Many say the era of print is waning. Seeing the new high-class art book come to life in this era is very touching. I have heard that you have collected art magazines such as Revue d’Art. You were born in 1997, so that means you are Generation Z. Gen Zs are digital natives who are more accustomed to online medium than printed ones.
How about you? Do you read any printed newspaper? (I saw one of your Instagram posts is a picture of you holding an Italian newspaper La Repubblica with an article about the MAGMA.) If you read the newspaper, what newspaper do you read?
It is true that my generation grew up with the (highly questionable) idea that virtuality could be the primary relationship with the world. It is increasingly striking to note that all levels of human interaction are now being challenged by the digital world: friendships, love affairs, aesthetic and intellectual discoveries, work, and entertainment.
But it’s also interesting to see that as this virtuality has developed, an increasingly strong need for materiality is also being expressed, including in my generation. The environmental challenge is a good example of this, and we could go on and on. Personally, I read books and newspapers in their print format.
13. You have also said, “In an era of technological reproducibility, Instagram, virtuality, and ephemerality, the goal was to give meaning back to the tangible object, to the artist’s gesture.” In the interview with Artnet. In the era of social media, new influencers have risen in the artistic circles, and even AI paints artworks. The growing influence of the digital world has spurred fullblown strikes against AI writers by the Writers Guild of America in Hollywood.
It shows that the technology is an inevitable trend. I believe digital technologies and AIs will become more powerful even in artistic circles. What is your opinion about it?
Artificial intelligence and new technologies are playing an increasingly prominent role in our lives. But the principle of artificial intelligence is to produce a result that is fed by cross-referencing massive databases, particularly textual and visual ones. The word intelligence itself is debatable, and many specialists in the field, philosophers, and anthropologists, question the very use of the word in this field.
The use of these technologies can be very useful in the domains of research, data analysis, and scientific exploration, but artificial intelligences - even generative ones - are not, in my opinion, likely to produce artistic output. Because, by nature, they are not sentient. To ask it to do so would be contrary to the nature of its function. In creating art, artists experience their bodies, their feelings (hunger, thirst, pain, sadness, melancholy, joy), they move through space, they feel the world in all its components, and this is not the case with a machine.
MAGMA’s manifesto insists on this: “When everything seems to be a mere click away, MAGMA offers the long view of annual publication. No machine-based artificial intelligence, only genuine artistic sensibility.”
14. MAGMA costs are similar to exhibition catalogs. It is issued annually as a limited edition (this time issued 2000 copies), so it might not be that much inancially challenging. However, it seems it is not an easy business to start in profit-wise. There are some independent art magazines, which sometimes discontinue due to financial matters.
And sometimes, profits need to be shared to artists. Thus, passion and a sense of duty alone might not be enough drive to making a book or business. What is your perspective on this?
You are right, the publishing sector is undergoing major change. Production costs are increasing, readership is decreasing, there are structural problems with paper supplies and, of course, competition from digital media.
All these factors contribute to the vulnerability of this industry, but they also reinforce the need to invest in preserving it and keeping it alive. At the same time, the publication of MAGMA has shown us that there is a public willing to continue to buy and support demanding publications. In the same way that there is a growing demand in the cinema for films over three hours long (in a world fueled by the short formats of YouTube, Instagram and TikTok), there is a growing appetite for books that combine form and content to engage a deeper
mode of thought, encounter, and attention. That’s reassuring, but it’s also a challenge.
The aim of a publication like MAGMA is obviously not to make a profit, but to be able to offer the most beautiful and meaningful print publication that allows for free expression and offers a sanctuary to artists and readers alike.
15. Among all the beautiful works, I was moved by an undisclosed letter and a poem by Rene Char to his goddaughter and your mother Angelique BERES. I especially liked the phrase “Comment les mots vous viennent?” (How words come to you?) and “Comme les larmes montent aux yeux puis naissent et se pressent, les mots font de meme” (Like tears welling up, words coming up).
Among all the works, what is your favorite, or which one made you feel fulfilled introducing it to the MAGMA, and why?
I cannot choose. I like — for different reasons — all the works featured in MAGMA. I like all the artists involved in this first edition, and perhaps I like them even more for being brought together in the same volume. The subject of Rene Char is of course a special one for me because, as you pointed out, I have a personal connection with this correspondence.
16. In the past, there were groups of intellectuals and artists. 18th century French Salon culture, 20thcentury artists group Bloomsbury group having an English writer Virginia Woolf as a member, and Studio 54 in New York with Andy Warhol and well-known artists at the time. Could MAGMA be a new trigger of this type of gathering or alternative of such groups?
It’s interesting that you mention this because I’ve been fascinated for a long time by these groups of artists, by these thinking circles, by these movements that have sometimes come together informally. The idea of bringing together the artists of MAGMA in a single publication was also a way of nurturing a sense of creative connection and community. If it has helped to foster real encounters, shared reflections, and a renewed interest in collective communion, then I’m very happy.
17. In the manifesto, it says “When everything seems to be a mere click away, MAGMA offers the long view of the annual publication. Rather than machine-based artificial intelligence. MAGMA offers the possibility of a gene artistic sensibility”.
For example, Documents by Georges Bataille discussed arguments around surrealism with Andre Breton, the 20th century’s surrealist writers, and this broadened the cultural horizons. In your opinion, what zeitgeist do we need today, and if it has disappeared or ruined now, what is the cause?
In a way, I feel that the art market has played a significant role in isolating artists, sometimes confining them in their echo chamber, and protecting them too much. Of course, that’s not the only reason. Times have changed, and so has the way artists express themselves. And I believe that today, more than ever, their voice is needed, vital.
18. At the beginning of the manifesto, it says “MAGMA has no theme. MAGMA takes no position. MAGMA belongs to no community. MAGMA adheres to no principle.” saying it would take everyone regardless of their political beliefs, generation, age and would not take sides.
Quite sure those who are interested would read it. But it would be great if it is exposed to beyond those limited few. In that sense, politics and art are close to each other, rather than one hundred miles apart. Sometimes, Art is taking a role of a manifesto.
Today’s philosophies (or slogans) on inclusiveness, diversity, anti-discrimination, etc., have cultural power and affect political policies. Among the politicians or leaders, is there anyone you would recommend reading this book? If it is, who would it be and why?
Art and politics are undeniably linked. Many artists have been political activists. But I think it’s a misconception to think that art is all about politics and that all artists should be politically engaged in their work. Artistic creation is precisely that thing that can be beyond the reach of rational categories, and what artists say to us must first and foremost be apprehended sensitively.
I believe that they speak to our emotions before our reason, and perhaps we’ve tended to forget that too much in recent times. In MAGMA, the artists have full freedom to express themselves, to address the topics they want and in the way they want. And I think it’s fair to say that there is, despite everything, a sincere and strong form of commitment in certain parts of the publication. It’s up to the reader to judge.
19. Similarly, many digital innovators and disruptors who live in the codes, computer industries, or a digital world of 0′s and 1′s still have cultural sensitivity. For example, Steve Jobs was known as a huge fan of the 18th-century poet and painter William Blake. Is there any digital/media guru you want to recommend MAGMA, then who would it be and why?
The artistic and literary inclinations of the tech gurus is a fascinating question. Steve Jobs was also fascinated by calligraphy and by Bob Dylan (so am I). I recommend reading the book Make Something Wonderful: Steve Jobs in his own words. It’s really interesting.
20. It might also be challenging to print handwritten letters (a copied version) in the envelope, medical X-rays similar to floppy disks, and paper-thin sheets. It requires sophisticated effort on every sheet,
I think it would have been hand-attached one by one and positioned. And there may be discarded ones because of wrongly attached or torn pieces. Are there any episodes around it? The printing process also demonstrates that bookmaking is not a simple work of printing copies but kind of artwork. How was it and what do you think about it?
Yes, there was a great deal of effort put into the quality of the printing, the graphic design, the paper choices, and the binding. The aim was to offer the public a collectible object at an affordable price. Printers have fascinating and precious know-how that must be protected. And books are also objects made by hands. It was very important to place this dimension at the very heart of our project.
21. The book is available in French and English. Maybe this is reason it feels like very French style or watching French art films (not only because of the language but also because of the artists). Is there any Korean artist in your mind or interested in?
I really like the Korean art scene, which is extremely rich and interesting. I love the work of Yun Hyong-keun or Lee Ufan and many other Korean artists. I’m also really interested in Korean filmmakers, particularly Hong Sang-soo, but also of course Bong Joon-ho and Park Chan-Wook.
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